He just blew the corner and was in a hurry to make sure he didn’t get passed. He failed and was off line at the apex. Pecco was past him at the point of contact.

Might be a racing incident but Alex isn’t innocent.

On Sep 2, 2024, at 4:27 PM, Ted Clough <ted.clough@gmail.com> wrote:

Re: the incident:

I watched the replays a couple of times. What nobody mentions is that Alex overcooked the previous left-hander and went way deep/wide. Pecco cut behind him and took the traditional line/entry into the right-hander and had more speed. As a result of going wide, Alex’s entry was way too far inside to make the corner at normal speed, and he had clearly upset the suspension trying to get it under control to slow and steer through that turn. Not sure why the bike stood up like it did, but he was along for the ride by that point…..just my non-racer unprofessional observation….

On Mon, Sep 2, 2024 at 12:07 PM <ducati-request@list.ducati.net> wrote:

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1. Re: Ducati Digest, Vol 598, Issue 2 (TomDressler)
2. Re: Aragon, SPOILER (sean t)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: TomDressler <tbrduc@gmail.com>
To: ducati@list.ducati.net
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2024 10:37:18 -0400
Subject: [Ducati] Re: Ducati Digest, Vol 598, Issue 2
In the one screenshot…who's the rider out front.. someone Lenovo?
A new Italian?
Giancarlo Lenovo?
😁
…Tom

> On Sep 2, 2024, at 10:31 AM, ducati-request@list.ducati.net wrote:
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: sean t <sftompkins@gmail.com>
To: Ducati Owners Group <ducati@list.ducati.net>
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2024 16:06:38 +0000
Subject: [Ducati] Re: Aragon, SPOILER
So has this been ruled a racing incident then? AM's head was looking well into the exit of the turn, and at that lean angle was essentially blocked by the tank cover as well as his arm, not to mention helmet peripheral view constraints. I can easily understand that he did not see Pecco (this is less evident from overhead shot than straight-on). And can equally understand Pecco's decision and assumption that he would clear AM before the apex. AM seemed to speed up at an odd spot before the turn entry.
Now, should AM have anticipated Pecco's challenge of the corner - sure. But its not a racer's job to worry about what is (or is perceived to be) behind you. I think it was Jason Pridmore (or his dad Reg) who said in a track class I attended that you can't ride your bike and someone else's bike at the same time - you can only focus on what you're doing and what's in front of you and forget trying to second-guess anybody else.

------ Original Message ------

From: "Lan Max" <nolanmaxxx@gmail.com>

To: "Ducati Owners Group" <ducati@list.ducati.net>

Sent: 9/2/2024 6:11:07 AM

Subject: [Ducati] Re: Aragon, NO SPOILER

From the slo-mo, both were trying to be on the same space, but it was Pecco who actually turned onto Alex’s front wheel.

Alex had no option, but to stand his bike up to salvage the impact. Again, it was strange to me that he didn’t brake at all while the bike was already upright, but rather modulating the throttle as seen on video.

Acc’d to the data, his throttle was open 40%-60% during that time.

<image_123650291.JPG>

<image_123650291.JPG>

<image_123650291.JPG>

On Mon, Sep 2, 2024 at 08:54 Lan Max <nolanmaxxx@gmail.com> wrote:

The Aragon race is similar to other races. It’s no different when Pecco or Jorge gets away up front., except this time it was MM93 as most have been anticipating and no one was able to challenge him; vice versa.

I don’t believe he can repeat this next weekend, but I’m looking forward to it.

At least with MM93, we all know that when arrives, he’s going to do something. Some may call it crashing or crashing into someone.

I think Pecco believes his race was compromised because his grid spot was not cleaned during both days, even though he requested it to be cleaned.

On Mon, Sep 2, 2024 at 04:59 Kevin Kachadourian <kkachadourian@gmail.com> wrote:

Okay, it's a Spoiler now, just in case that matters,

For the most part, I thought is was a pretty boring race. It reminded me of when, back in Rossi's heyday, it was about who was going to finish second. I'm not a big fan of MM (mostly around his ruthlessness), but I have to give this one to him. It was his masterful performance that made the race boring, except for the incident.

I'm embarrassed to say it, but I agree with Lan: it was a racing incident. From the video from above, it looks like FB had the lead, AM refused to cede it, and attempted to pass back under FB, unsuccessfully. I was not in either seat, so can't really judge, but, if i had to assign blame, I would fault AM. The only real criticism I have though is towards AM's comment that he did not see FB (which his brother repeated, just so we can have the official pronouncement). He's a top level MotoGP rider. He should have trained himself both to anticipate these moves (has he ever raced his brother?) and to have enough peripheral awareness to know that FB was there. I was amazed and very glad neither rider was injured.

I was also glad to see PA on the podium. Hopefully, his day is coming.

On Mon, 2 Sept 2024 at 05:07, Lan Max <nolanmaxxx@gmail.com> wrote:

We all know MM93 is a master at Aragon and I believe the low grip helped.
I’ve been watching MM93 on the Repsol machine and he was always squiggly and a demon on the brakes,

which worked to his advantage and style. I think the Ducati doesn’t like that behavior, hence he won both races this weekend.

The other riders aren’t up to par with MM93 when it comes to these conditions. Basically, the machines do a lot of work, if not most rather than the rider.

Paraphrasing MM93: “Do what the bike wants to do, not what you want it to do”

As for the incident between Pecco and Alex,

I think it was a racing incident. Though, it is strange to see Alex modulating his throttle during the impact (his bike was already upright, just ploughing through) until the crash, rather than braking. Maybe he was braking with his rear brake? I don’t know.

For sure, Pecco should have been more patient and avoided the incident, but it was a racer instinct. Lastly, he’s the one with a lot to lose, so he needs to ride smarter. He would’ve passed Alex anyway in the next few corners or laps. I think MM93 smoking everyone on an older machine got to his head.

On Sun, Sep 1, 2024 at 20:47 Frank Smith <frank56smith@gmail.com> wrote:

Why not - it has been great to watch the drama unfold this season. I never doubted MM would return to his winning ways but all the rest of the field has entertained us too. The ride height device discussions have been interesting too, has the system showed up on any street bike yet?

So looking forward to next year.

Frank

On Mon, 2 Sep 2024 at 10:38, Tony Pagliaroli <ajpags@gmail.com> wrote:

NOW!?!?

> On Sep 1, 2024, at 7:08 PM, Kevin Kachadourian <kkachadourian@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 
> Wow. When do we start taking about the race today?
>
>
>
>
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As if the Spaniards don’t have their own closed feedback loop? For most Americans it’s really hard to understand the Spain vs Italy rivalry so I think these views are completely expected.

It clearly wasn’t the best thing AM could do…and why would you expect Pecco to go off line in the dirty parts at a higher speed and greater lean angle because ALEX blew the previous corner? Especially if you think it was smart of Alex to go right for the apex?

I can buy “racing incident” but as Pecco was in front at the time of impact, I’ll give the nod to him and pass the majority of blame to Alex. Looked like he got a little spooked and stood it up maybe.

On Sep 2, 2024, at 7:38 PM, Sandro Reis <sandro.f.reis@gmail.com> wrote:

The most concerning aspect for me is that Bagnaia starts his interview of the accident saying "As everybody said, we know whos fault that was." [Not mine].

I think the kid lives in a bubble. If we add to that Benzechi's view, who said AM not only was at fault, but that he did it on purpose, it makes it look to the rest of us that the VR46 academy riders live in a bubble with a closed loop feedback.

It was clearly a racing incident for most of the world press and independent observers.

In my own view though, Bagnaia had the best chance to avoid it, having more to lose than AM. As AM said on his interview, this wouldnt have happened in I had 3ft of room at the Apex. Bagnaia however, was deterrmined to finish the move by that corner and not on the next, completely forgetting that behind his eyes theres 4ft of bike left he needs to clear just to be safe. He didn't have to give room. Same as AM didn't have to lift just because the last turn was messed up.

Same type of fight happened several times during the Moto2 race and all gave each other's room. It's possible. But it's naïve for Bagnaia to expect AM would just concede.

If anything, given how dirt going off line is, it was actually smart for AM to force the issue and occupy the next apex asap. It could mean Bagnaia needed to lift (as there would be no grip on the outside) and he'd have a chance too keep his position.

On Mon, Sep 2, 2024, 14:10 Lewis Kirk <ducati@dmzgraphics.com> wrote:

That there’s the facts!

> On Sep 2, 2024, at 4:26 PM, Ted Clough <ted.clough@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Re: the incident:
>
> I watched the replays a couple of times. What nobody mentions is that Alex overcooked the previous left-hander and went way deep/wide. Pecco cut behind him and took the traditional line/entry into the right-hander and had more speed. As a result of going wide, Alex’s entry was way too far inside to make the corner at normal speed, and he had clearly upset the suspension trying to get it under control to slow and steer through that turn. Not sure why the bike stood up like it did, but he was along for the ride by that point…..just my non-racer unprofessional observation….

Lewis Kirk
Member No. 18-80-CM
Clemson Cafe Racers
http://www.dmzgraphics.com/clemsoncafe
"Four strokes for lovin' folks."

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But at least part of the impetus of VR46 was to combat the wealth of Spanish riders on the grid.

On Sep 2, 2024, at 9:09 PM, Sandro Reis <sandro.f.reis@gmail.com> wrote:

No, I don't think it's the same at all.

There's a closer bond between VR46 academy riders like theres nothibg else on the Spain side.

Notoriously Marc Márquez and Lorenzo weren't besties but even today, Aleix and Jorge in one camp, it's based on

personal relationship, not nationality.

And if you go to Moto 2 and 3 this is even more evident. There's so many Spanish riders, that if they form some sort of club, we'd know about. They don't.

On Mon, Sep 2, 2024, 17:21 Tony Pagliaroli <ajpags@gmail.com> wrote:

As if the Spaniards don’t have their own closed feedback loop? For most Americans it’s really hard to understand the Spain vs Italy rivalry so I think these views are completely expected.

It clearly wasn’t the best thing AM could do…and why would you expect Pecco to go off line in the dirty parts at a higher speed and greater lean angle because ALEX blew the previous corner? Especially if you think it was smart of Alex to go right for the apex?

I can buy “racing incident” but as Pecco was in front at the time of impact, I’ll give the nod to him and pass the majority of blame to Alex. Looked like he got a little spooked and stood it up maybe.

On Sep 2, 2024, at 7:38 PM, Sandro Reis <sandro.f.reis@gmail.com> wrote:

The most concerning aspect for me is that Bagnaia starts his interview of the accident saying "As everybody said, we know whos fault that was." [Not mine].

I think the kid lives in a bubble. If we add to that Benzechi's view, who said AM not only was at fault, but that he did it on purpose, it makes it look to the rest of us that the VR46 academy riders live in a bubble with a closed loop feedback.

It was clearly a racing incident for most of the world press and independent observers.

In my own view though, Bagnaia had the best chance to avoid it, having more to lose than AM. As AM said on his interview, this wouldnt have happened in I had 3ft of room at the Apex. Bagnaia however, was deterrmined to finish the move by that corner and not on the next, completely forgetting that behind his eyes theres 4ft of bike left he needs to clear just to be safe. He didn't have to give room. Same as AM didn't have to lift just because the last turn was messed up.

Same type of fight happened several times during the Moto2 race and all gave each other's room. It's possible. But it's naïve for Bagnaia to expect AM would just concede.

If anything, given how dirt going off line is, it was actually smart for AM to force the issue and occupy the next apex asap. It could mean Bagnaia needed to lift (as there would be no grip on the outside) and he'd have a chance too keep his position.

On Mon, Sep 2, 2024, 14:10 Lewis Kirk <ducati@dmzgraphics.com> wrote:

That there’s the facts!

> On Sep 2, 2024, at 4:26 PM, Ted Clough <ted.clough@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Re: the incident:
>
> I watched the replays a couple of times. What nobody mentions is that Alex overcooked the previous left-hander and went way deep/wide. Pecco cut behind him and took the traditional line/entry into the right-hander and had more speed. As a result of going wide, Alex’s entry was way too far inside to make the corner at normal speed, and he had clearly upset the suspension trying to get it under control to slow and steer through that turn. Not sure why the bike stood up like it did, but he was along for the ride by that point…..just my non-racer unprofessional observation….

Lewis Kirk
Member No. 18-80-CM
Clemson Cafe Racers
http://www.dmzgraphics.com/clemsoncafe
"Four strokes for lovin' folks."

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