[Ducati] 2 threads in one (touring and bump starting)

Fri Jan 18 06:50:09 EST 2008

I think the mileage issue is grossly underestimated. I rode my 86 Honda Nighthawk to near 50K when I sold it and last I heard from second owner he was near 100K and only replaced a starter. Problem I think is that many midweight Honda owners treat their bikes like they were disposable, thrashing them and generally neglecting them. Owners that treat them like we do our Ducs or MotoGuzzis get much more trouble free mileage. I think Egan was determined to show that Ducati could do it and my hat is off to him.My experience still leads me to believe that is atypical experience.
  Comment re distance over time, is that because of comfort? I Put heli bars on VFR for my wife and the comfort level though not Multistrada level was still reasonable. But we are not talking about bikes really designed with same intent I think or at different points on spectrum. Unfortunately for some of us who have lots of riding experience the far end enduros prove to be as good at sport touring as the purebred sporttourers. the VFR I push down a lot closer to the sporting end of the spectrum. The earlier ones this was even more true of. I would have no issues covering distances you identified on many Hondas. I have spent upwards of 1000 mile days on a Sportbike in my youth. Not sure I would do it in my 50s but....the Nighthawk S was a standard and I spent long days in the saddle on that 2 up with camping gear strapped to the back. I routinely rode to Bike Week the 1000 odd miles on a 600F2 in one day. Course my roots going back 20 plus years is with the Honda Sport
 Touring Association, a group of folks who first rallied around Honda V4s and later the VFR and ST2/3 etc. This is a group that thought little of 1000 mile days with sporting roads and a good meal the typical destination. in these parts the Blue Ridge of Va/WV and NC the usual haunts.
  The Guzzi has a long standing reputation for durability, probably a consequence of parts built around automotive sources, never owned one but good friend does. He's also into Urals, no surprise, they are also built to go the distance if use of steel is any indication. You have to admit that average riders are not clocking 100k on anything in no number of years. 30K in a year in any vehicle is evidence you spend way too much time on the roads. :) Course Moose Parrish, past president of the HSTA had job as a editor/publisher? for some publishing house and he rode his ST everywhere, I forget how much mileage a year but it was disgusting how much time he spent in the saddle travelling the country for work, and pleasure. I do not think i ever saw him get into or out of a car ever.  Seems to me he put a lifetime of mileage on a bike in one year. ST seemed a good mount for that and I think the equal in that department of anything Ducati put together. Point is I am used to
 rubbing shoulders with guys who put incredible mileage on Hondas routinely and several have used the VFR for like purpose but as they have put some years on have moved up to STs.
  Last parting comment is there are groups and other marques that have very similar perspectives about bikes, riding and share a common passion. the similarities are remarkable. You could change the wording abit and discussions we have are identical to conversations I have had with bunches of Honda Sporttourers. And what also misses the point in some respects, there are many of us with an appreciation of all motorcycling, meaning I can be quit comfortable with a Ducati, Honda, BMW, Triumph, Kawasaki, Suzuki...etc.etc. in the garage and not be conflicted at all. Can find merits in all of them and differences and speak plainly with out alot of bias. Have not ridden the perfect motorcycle yet but have ridden a few not many have. From starting out on a 25 dollar Honda 90 in the late 60s to riding friends Triumph and then Z1 and RDs and GTs to a long line of Honda SuperSports and Standards, in 30 plus years of riding I have had chance to ride maybe 50 or so different bikes for
 extended periods of time. Not one did I not find something I liked about it and something I hated about it. Several have returned over the years, have owned near a half dozen RZs and almost as many RDs, wife owned several Hawks, and a succession of Honda Hypersports from 900RR thru the 954 inluding RC51. We had about a 10 year phase of NSR 250s owning 3 and even tried the Aprillia in that period. Everything I rode I also worked on. Everything I rode got about the same treatment, meaning the RDs spent as much time riding out to Deals Gap or the BRP as the BMW GSA. All got passed on in better shape thn we found them. Meaning they were sport tourers. Likely comes from the second bike I really laid my hands on as mine in the early 70s, a Suzuki GT380 that I took off my kid brothers hands after he rode it from Travis AFB to NYC and then Norfolk in 1973, all done in 4 days, he had his heart set on a new Z1. maybe a little reckless to put something like 3000 plus miles on a two
 stroke in 4 days but it did fine. Wouldn't do it today and he only fessed up years later as to how he did it, seemed he liked little black pills in those days. :(   highlights wer one of Big Sids Vincents cause I could kick start it on the first try...and lowlights a Harley XR that vibrated so bad I could never tell if a cop had pulled out behind me or not, something I could not live with. All good with a measure of bad thrown in to keep it human. Rich
Peter Bonner <dsi at swcp.com> wrote:
  Well Rich,

as Mick Walker used to say, if you only ride on Sundays, get a Ducati, but
if you ride all week, get a Moto Guzzi. Even my little 500cc 1981 Monza Moto
Guzzi clocked 100k trouble free miles in 3 years, no way you would get even
5 times that, or perhaps even equal that with a VFR. But I hear what you are
saying, for the Honda you pay the price in extra weight, not quite as good
handling, and longer maintenance intervals with a Honda VFR. But will a
Honda VFR get 500,000 miles or 1 million miles with the same ease that my
Ducati Multistrada got 50k miles? I seriously doubt it. And I doubt it would
make from Albuquerque to past St. Louis (nearly 1200 miles) in 17 hours,
which is the sort of thing Gary Egan needs to do (in a lot less time of
course). Add to that the fact then when I first moved to San Antonio, from
some folks on this list, I headed out sunday morning to a place where some
bikes met, and hooked up with a bunch of guys. The obvious fast guy was
riding a VFR, so clearly these were not great riders. They took me along a
bunch of roads, and to make a long story short, the road over the hills to
Leakey was the best I have found in Texas. On the second run, I led the way
back and the guy on the VFR was not all that far behind me, but when we
pulled into the picnic area outside of Vanderpool, he enthusiastically
exclaimed as how that was the fastest he had ever been on that road. I of
course, pointed out that I had a far superior bike, namely my 1977 Moto
Guzzi LeMans.

Peter

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rich Roberts" 
To: "Ducati Owners Group" 
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Ducati] 2 threads in one (touring and bump starting)

> The real distinction here and the point that is missing, granted the Duc
is more visceral, more open, a little more raw. the Honda a bit more muted,
even refined from an engineering standpoint. My point is this, though some
would ride the 900ss or any other Duc across the country and I would give
them the thumbs up the whole way, a far more realistic choice I think would
be the VFR. I am sorry, A Duc would not be my IronButt choice though I know
Egan does it. With what amount of prep and support I am not sure. But the
Honda will typically take alot more abuse before it leaves you pushing it up
the street and for the most part will almost always start and get you home.
Not absolutely as I have had at least two Honda V motored bikes give it up
over of all things regulator rectifier problems. Sounds familiar huh? But I
have also logged 10-20 times more miles on a Honda than any Duc without any
issues that I did not create myself.
> the VFR is a very balanced mix of all things good about Honda and V
motors in general. A bit more compact and likely more complicated than the
simpler 900SS. Personally I like gear driven over head cams. I liked some of
the earlier models before they did the sidemounted rads and were a bit
lighter. I still think my all time favorite was that 86 tarriff beating one
in pearl white with gold accents or the one year earlier 750 in RWB. Both of
which I think would pretty handily spank any 900SS. Does that mean I like
the 900SS any less, hardly. For sheer fun the 900SS has it hands down. By
the way my wifes since sold VFR has graced the cover of the Whitehorse press
in the past.
>
> Bob Marren wrote:
> A friend of mine has a VFR and is fond of saying that its almost a
> Ducati. I ask him if thats like being almost pregnant. Its over his head
> and so would a Ducati be.
>
> Kevin Kachadourian wrote:
>
> >Maybe the distinction should be between touring and long-distance riding
> >(and maybe "adventure" riding).
> >
> >Or, maybe it's like Starbucks vs Mama Cinnelli's cafe.
> >
> >I've owned 2 Hondas, a CB350 k3 and a VF750. They started every time, and
> >ran like dreams (with the VF, I had to get used to the clatter of the cam
> >chain). I would never go back to either of these bikes, if it meant
giving
> >up either the Aly or the SP.
> >A friend, who owned a VFR, said it best after riding the SP: "the VFR is
a
> >great bike, and everything is there; but with the SP, you know you're
riding
> >a motorcycle."
> >
> >I sometimes wonder if I should go back to the early kick-start 900SS.
> >
> >Kevin
> >
> >
> >On 1/16/08, Tony Pagliaroli wrote:
> >
> >
> >>On Jan 16, 2008 5:11 PM, Kevin Kachadourian
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Whether you call it a sport-tourer, a touring sport bike, or a bloody
> >>>
> >>>
> >>beast,
> >>
> >>
> >>>it's always good to tour on a bike that you can bump start.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>C'mon Kevin - I could make the exact opposite argument for only
> >>touring on a Honda. If it never fails to start, that need is
> >>eliminated.
> >>
> >>Pags
> >>
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