[Ducati] Hey Art...I need....

Mon Jan 7 09:42:24 EST 2008

Hey Art,

Phoenix certainly has a number of aerospace shops, and they get the big
bucks. Sometimes  you can find the little shops and they will work with you.
Big shops generally just don't want to bother with little projects. I only
know the little shops from Albuq. area, because I was one of them at the
time.  For really high quality stuff from a guy who knows motorcycles, John
Butterman in Albuquerque is the man. For example, John designed and built
prototype Honda top triple clamps that were designed for Scott steering
dampers, sent them one, and got a contract from Scott to build the clamps
for Scott. John has been involved in many projects for bikes including
building the RAD front ends.

The real key to cheap prices is having an effective drawing though. Knowing
what tolerances need to be close and what doesn't is the trick. For
instance, the overall length of the holder for cam checking could be off by
half an inch too long, no problem. The spacing of the holes can be off by
.020", no problem, and the size of the hole doesn't need to be ultra close
either. The only thing even close to critical is the location (relative to
the two mounting holes) and angle of inclination of the hole to hold the
stem of the indicator, and even that is not close, in aerospace terms. Just
using angle blocks in a vise will more than suffice, no need to even worry
about using a sine bar for that sort of thing. If you went in with nice neat
measurements for length, height, width of the body of the holder, then of
course you are going to pay extra for the unneccessary work, because it
takes their time. On the other hand, if it comes from a common stock bar
size they can cut with a saw, two quick passes (one rough, one finish) to
mill the mounting ears and drill the holes, then put on angle block in vise
for indicator hole plus a 90 degree hole for a set screw, and with a
standard vise setup on a Bridgeport, its about 30 minutes work if the stock
is in hand and saw cut to length. Of course this means you have the proper
tooling and machines. Otherwise, just lots of time and patience, which is
fine if you are retired and like puttering or seldom need something. Since
many night schools offer good machine shops in big cities, that is just more
economical and convenient in many ways. You mention to Rich, the part cost
$300 or something, but then again just the Kurt vise on my CNC Bridgeport
cost $800, and that was 20 years ago. Of course the speed of doing machine
parts paid for that vise within the first year of use.

John can be reached at:
Butterman Tool & Engineering. 504 Rio Rancho Drive NE # A Rio Rancho, NM
87124 phone: (505) 891-2758.

Peter

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Art Ramos" <hyperpastabiker at gmail.com>
To: "Ducati Owners Group" <ducati at ducati.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Ducati] Hey Art...I need....

> Hey Hopper
>
> What is most important is to keep the valve angle in line with the dial
> indicator's travel. This way you get an accurate reading. So however one
> comes up with a fixture, it need to be inline with the valve travel. If
you
> note in the Chris's photo, he's using an aid to measure the valve travel
in
> front of the valve stem. The indicator isn't right on top of the rocker
arm.
> That guy Chris is pretty tricky! My kind of guy!
>
> As far as the mill goes. I don't think Alex Ortner is loosing any sleep
over
> me at night with my machining skills. Ha! I have done the mounts, vented
my
> clutch housing corsa style, machined the OEM cam covers to the corsa
style,
> and have even chucked a rotor hone in it and bolted a rotary table to do
my
> rotors of my bikes. Like anything if you don't beat the crap out of it, it
> will be just fine. I think it all boils down to one's skill level and
> patience and a realist view of what it can do. NASA won't be ringing me
for
> Aerospace parts for the Shuttle anytime soon.
>
> I didn't think it could whittle down some mild steel plate and it chewed
> it's way right through it with a nice finish cut so I guess it's fairly
> tight. It's just took some time. It comes in handy without taking up a
bunch
> of room with four bikes in the garage. I was thinking about getting some
> carbide mills, but the cobalt stuff seems to work good enough with the
> proper diameter and feed and bit speeds with aluminum.
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> I tried getting someone here in Phoenix to do some one off stuff. It was
> pricey with setup fees and then an hourly rate. Even if it only took an
hour
> to crank out. It was a way to discourage the average Joe from coming in.
It
> was fun doing my own stuff, but if someone want the same I'd point them to
> Ben Fox. http://www.foxperformanceengines.com/clutch.htm I'd love to have
a
> gear drive full size mill, but that just isn't going to happen or fit in
my
> garage even if someone gave me one. Ha!
>
> Art
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 6, 2008 2:54 PM, HOPPER ELDRIDGE <hoppereldridge at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Art, 'preciate the info! Looks like a pretty straight forward device and
> > after looking at Chris' set up, it should be fairly simple. Is the angle
and
> > the center distance to the hole for the indicator from the gasket face
very
> > critical?
> >
> >  Which now beggars another question....What's your feelings about the
> > Harbor Freight drill/mill? Been looking at theirs and at some in the
Grizzly
> > catalog. Figured it might be a stop-gap set-up before I get a bigger
lathe
> > and knee mill. (Looks like I may finally be getting back into the oil
patch.
> > Several promising "returns" came back Friday, especially the one that
ask me
> > my birth date! Figured it would be the kiss of death, but guess not!
It's an
> > overseas compnay so they can do that! So, everybody, cross their
fingers,
> > and the Aggies on the list, squeeze their left...well, y'all get the
> > message!) Is the power, center distances, speeds and feeds adequate for
most
> > m/c work?
> >
> >  The Grizzly Toy...err Tool Catalog has some real reasonably priced
> > machining equipment. Just not reasonably for my current underpaid job!
> >  <grin-n-bear it>
> >
> >  Hopper
> > *****
> >
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> >
> *****
>
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motorcycle
> stand superstore.  Every brand, every model, 95% in stock for immediate
> shipment. Whether front stands, rear stands, paddock stands, dirt bike
> stands, or any kind of stand or lift, MC Stands tests, rates, and
discounts
> everything they sell.  Check them out!
>
> Visit: http://mcstands.com/
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