[Ducati] 900SS - Wits End
Alec Moss
amoss at coastside.net
Sat Oct 27 12:35:34 EDT 2007
Also great stuff Chris. It sure sounds as if no matter what else I do, the
Malossi intakes must be added. Thanks.
Alec
On 10/27/07 7:42 AM, "cedwards105" <cedwards105 at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> My DB2 ('93 900ss motor) came from the Bimota factory making 67rwhp on the
> dyno at Battley Cycles, Rockville,MD.
>
> A main jet change, leaner, and a return to the Ducati stock needles, versus
> the Bimota engineered ones, had it up to 73rwhp.
>
> A year or so later, not satisfied, I dropped the bike off with Greg Rammel,
> after reading an article on Michael White's DB2 (California Dreaming) and
> another from Peter Egan, stating he would only let Greg work on his bikes. I
> had to twist Greg's arm to take my bike. My goal was to have a bike making
> between 85-90rwhp.
>
> I delivered it from Washington DC to just outside Detroit, 500 miles, in the
> interior of my Dodge Town and Country Caravan. It would fit without the
> tank/seat unit and fairing.
>
> I picked it up about 3 months later, no rush on my part as Greg had it over
> the winter.
>
> The following was done to the bike;
> 944cc big bore kit, not a core swap
> Pankl Ti rods
> VeeTwo Cams
> Falicon lightened, knife edged and balanced crank
> 39mm Keihin on ported stock long manifolds
> CR Axtell Ported heads and modified valve stems for the VeeTwo cams
>
> The bike ran great and had monstrous torque, but I was hugely disappointed
> when it stopped dead at 80rwhp on the Battley's dyno again. We thought this
> might be the Bimota exhaust design, so Battley's very kindly let me try a
> stock 900ss exhaust, plus two or three different slip on's. The dyno results
> were almost identical with all other exhausts.
>
> Later that year, both Greg and I were at DOCC Grattan, Greg with another DB2
> with all the same mods as mine with the exception of the Pankl rods, which
> shouldn't made any difference in the HP area, just allow the motor to spin
> up a little quicker.
>
> Somebody had a dyno at the track so were put the two bikes on back to back.
> Greg's bike made 86rwhp and mine made 80rwhp.
>
> Frustrated, I let Tony Foster, who also had a DB2 making 90rwhp, with pretty
> much the same mods as mine, running the Bimota stock exhaust, take the bike
> back down to his shop in Daytona,FL. We though it might be the short versus
> long intakes, but Greg's Db2 also had the long intakes and his was making 6
> more Hp than mine.
>
> After messing with the bike, Tony found, after doing a compression test, 3
> of the 4 valves (CR Axtell's work) were not seating. After he fixed this and
> put the short Malossi intakes with individual 41mm Keihin FCR's, degreed the
> cams, it was up to 89rwhp. Life was good.
>
> Shortly, thereafter I broke a rear belt at Grattan and dinged the valves,
> piston and cam. Tony again took the bike back to FL and fixed everything,
> but this time I had him put my stock cams in. One of the problems with the
> Vee Two cams is the intake valve stem had to be lengthened by a couple of
> mm, rather than bugger around anymore, that's when I decided to use my old
> stock cams. The bike ended up at 86rwhp.
>
> The bike now sits in track form at 352lbs full of fuel and is a blast to
> ride, but not quite as much fun as my 1098S.
>
> Both the 39mm on stock long intakes and the 41mm on short intakes work
> really well. My only issue, between the two pairs, is the 39mm on stock
> intakes had much better fit and placement than the 41mm on short intakes,
> which require foam filters because of the placement of the battery box on
> the DB2.
>
> With the short intakes, the bike feels like it is making power all the way
> to 9000rpm. The dyno confirmed it peaked at 8200rpm versus 7300rpm on the
> long intakes.
>
> Drivability of the Keihin FCR's versus the stock Mikunis is night and day.
> My bike used to have a lag anytime I closed the throttle and then got back
> on it. Mike Cecchini commented after riding my bike, with the FCR's, "This
> feels like the bike has the most perfect fuel injection, I've never felt a
> bike pull so cleanly and instantly with carb's".
>
> I see it as my track bike when I decide the 1098 is a little too much,
> probably when I'm about 60+ years old.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Roberts" <bigredxrunner at yahoo.com>
> To: "Ducati Owners Group" <ducati at ducati.net>
> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 10:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ducati] 900SS - Wits End
>
>
>> Doesn't have to be propane about any volatile spirit will work like brake
>> cleaner etc etc.
>> As others have said, going back some years and I doubt I saved it but
>> someone years ago documented the results of many many changes to 900SS, it
>> almost read like a scientific paper. the result the single biggest effect
>> resulted from use of Malossi intakes. In fact if you wanted to get within
>> shouting distance of 90hp it was a necessity.
>> The FCRs will require a bit different starting routine but once you have
>> it it generally will not be a problem. they will waken up the bike quite a
>> bit in my experience. Used to be an outfit in Arkansas or somewhere down
>> that way that sold those Malossis. Buddy likely remembers the guy.
>> But if you only want to get what you have running right. CVs can be made
>> to work fine. It usually does not take much, When I have no idea I usually
>> go up on main, slow jet and shim needle and see how that does. I have
>> found in many bikes jetted EPA lean this almost always is an improvement
>> over stock, sometime the increase in main and slow needs to be two sizes
>> up. I have found in many cases something like this actually works better
>> than new carbs. On my wifes DRZ when I was unhappy with the FCRs and full
>> ti exhaust etc pulled it all off took stock carbs and went up on the main
>> and slow two sizes shimmed needle and it ran and started like a champ, and
>> this bike for whatever reason was always cranky as hell starting, very
>> lean jetting. Also the slow jet was so small it frequently clogged with
>> microscopic something, meaning I could never see anything in it but when I
>> blew it out with solvent and put it back together it always ran and
>> started better.
>> Some folks may be more scientific in their appraoch to these things, my
>> approach has usually been see what others have done and try something and
>> see how it does. never overlook the significance of slow jet. I have
>> learned over the years focusing on main and needle often seems perplexing,
>> meaning nothing you do will sort out problem, but increasing slow jet and
>> bam, problem solved. Seen it several times...cause jetting overlaps, it is
>> not just this or that, as you transition across the circuits those
>> circuits overlap so at WOT it is mainly the main jet but other jets are
>> doing a little as well esp as you roll on the throttle.
>> Your problem can be many minor things or jsut one.
>> My approach has always been to take apart and clean thoroughly, blow out
>> everything with electromotive parts cleaner being very careful with
>> gaskets which genrally do not like strong solvents, nothing like having a
>> bowl gasket grow on you. And go up on main and slow a size or two. lots of
>> singles and twins seem to be very forgiving of such course adjustments,
>> meaning you would be surprised, runs ok, but runs better but both may work
>> better than stock. Jets are cheap, local Suzuki dealer usually lets me go
>> through their box of jets if i am looking for a couple, I usually have a
>> hundred or so assorted jets from years of messing with this stuff and many
>> Dynojet kits or Factory kits. So it makes it easy to try things.
>> i am not saying you have an airleak but it cant hurt to check, it likely
>> is jetting. When jetting is off all sorts of fugged up things happen, from
>> poor starting, does not want to idle, runs on, stumbles...usually not
>> because jets are too big unless you did that yourself. Trash in a jet can
>> do it as well.
>> If main is not right often you can tune out some of that with the air
>> screw, pilot air screw etc. But if making course adjustments and little
>> happens that is indication that you neeed to change main. this is partly
>> why a couple main size differences will work, even there is overlap using
>> air screw.
>> Also seems to me much writen in past about emulsion tubes on some of
>> these bikes wearing out from the needle working in them over time, Change
>> emulsion tube and problem goes away. I am no expert on emulsion tubes but
>> clearly they are important, important enough that in some cases where a
>> stock carb does not have one, Dynojet will actually inclde themn in their
>> kit. Seems to me years ago in the 600F2 kit Dynojet included emulsion
>> tubes that sort of shroud the needle in throat. I guess they sort of
>> create like a mini venturi around the needle main interface and help
>> atomize fuel better as it comes out of the main.
>> if your carbs have emulsion tubes might want to look at that, what little
>> I remember is that they wear out from the rattling around of needle and
>> the reult is less atomizing which i would think would result in leaner
>> conditions. But dont quote me on that. I have never changed out emulsion
>> tubes on 900SS. Just something to look for if it applies. Rich
>>
>> Alec Moss <amoss at coastside.net> wrote:
>> I'll check with the propane routine. I seem to remember another way of
>> checking that sounded safer, although I've done this before with my old
>> (long gone) Triumphs. Do you remember what that was?
>>
>>
>> Alec
>>
>>
>> On 10/26/07 2:18 PM, "Rich Roberts" wrote:
>>
>>> Could be an air leak. Rich
>>>
>>> Alec Moss wrote: Thanks all. The bike has about 10,000
>>> miles and, in neutral, when I roll on
>>> the throttle a bit from idle, it rolls on smoothly but won't hold the
>>> slightly higher rpm. It wants to race a bit. Maybe it's time. :-}
>>>
>>>
>>> Alec
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/26/07 9:13 AM, "Bruce Bellm"
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> FWIW, I had them on my SS for 3 yrs. before I sold it. And, living in
>>>> New
>>>> England (albeit northeastern CT) it never failed to start using the
>>>> drill
>>>> you mentioned.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Alec,
>>>>> Having ridden both on a daily basis, from this statement I would stick
>>>>> with the stock Mikuni carbs. The Keihins are a kick in the pants, but
>>>>> can
>>>>> be a
>>>>> little finicky upon start up (my ritual is 2-3 snaps of the throttle
>>>>> before
>>>>> start up) and they have no choke, so depending on your climate and
>>>>> riding
>>>>> routine the stock carbs are sounding like the more practical choice.
>>>>> Now to contradict that, if I only had one carb bike to ride, I would
>>>>> want
>>>>> it
>>>>> to have Keihins.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *****
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>>
>>
>>
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