[Ducati] getting more from a 996
cedwards105
cedwards105 at cfl.rr.com
Thu Dec 28 13:02:23 EST 2006
Well thanks to all that responded. I also have a friend who did some pretty
extensive stuff to his 996 by (old) BCM and looking at his costs and the
cost of many of the suggestions in this thread, I've decided to bite the
bullet and get a 1098 instead. I would have ended up spending about 2/3rds
the cost of a stock 1098 on a soon to be 7 year old bike, didn't make much
sense.
So I'll be getting rid of my '00 996S or parting it out at some point.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Roberts" <bigredxrunner at yahoo.com>
To: "Ducati Owners Group" <ducati at ducati.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Ducati] getting more from a 996
Like others here, if getting heads done send to Guy in Canada. He is one of
the best...and always looking for a better way...cam degreeing it helps to
have the block for dial indicator....if you happen to get up with Guy tell
him I was asking for the one I gave him in Daytona some years back....:)
Anyway sounds like you have had sleeves rolled up a time or two. I may even
still have some offset keys in the garage. I would have to check, but
Ferraci is your best bet there. Shim set, nah....On my old 916/955 I think
over near 10 years I bought maybe 4 shims...course I have a rig in garage
for lapping em to the nearest .01mm so I usually shift em around til I have
made the best of it and then I buy the one or two I might need, course if
you go to Guy you need to go with the MBP collets and that will change all
of that, meaning you wont be reshimming much afterwards. When you replaced
pistons did you balance em? As Art suggests...squish is a big part of the
power gains. I set
mine at maybe .040" with solder to measure. You set with new base gaskets
and head gaskets, most of which you should still be able to get from Cometic
I think. Back in the early years I think I was the second person to use them
after FbF. I would stay away from the copper head gaskets. I never could get
em not to leak. Also be very careful setting squish....040 is as close as I
would get. I think once I went down just below that at .038 or something
like that and the piston was just kissing the head, enough to make the head
gasket leak just a bit. Course depends on pistons you use as well I think
then I was using JE and went back to Wiseco. Also a good time to take
advantage of HPC coatins and get crown and skirts done. Times have changed
abit since then and you have lots of piston options now. Pistal I think is
what many like. I would balance to nearest gram and get rid of all sharp
edges. I shave off material from inside of skirt with a dremel to get both
pistons to
nearest gram. I suspect you know that ideally when changing pistons at some
point you need to go back and rebalance crank...Usually done as asssmbly
with pistons rods and crank all included. I think I even sent flywheel and
such to Falicon when I did it. If you do not there is a chance you will get
a bit of vibration at the higher rpms. I ran that way for a year or so with
no problems with 125 rwhp and 75 foot pounds but then next winter redid the
bottom end. All of this stuff is kind of old news and lots of info out there
and ways to go. I went down this road in the early years when lots of things
were still kind of new. But I was the guy doing it in my garage, short of
cutting in new seats and the like. Lots of folks have made a business of
this expereince and things are a lot more standard. Guy likely represents
the best resource for all of that info
----- Original Message ----
From: cedwards105 <cedwards105 at cfl.rr.com>
To: Ducati Owners Group <ducati at ducati.net>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 6:36:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Ducati] getting more from a 996
I'm in Orlando so we don't have a place to close for getting shims. We have
a new shop in Daytona and Tony Foster is also still there, Chris Boy is
about 4 hours down the road in Fort Lauderdale.
>From a mechanical side I've had a 916 the motor out, replaced pistons
>twice,
had the entire flywheel and clutch side assemblies off, I've just never got
to the point of splitting the crankcases. If I had a shim set, and offset
keys for degreeing the cams, I'd have no problem having a go at it myself,
as long as knew where they should start to open the intakes and exhaust
valves.
I actually have a spare 916 motor that I could play with to get a little
more mechanical knowledge.
My gut feel is that I would either make a trip to BCM and stay there a few
days so I could bring the bike back with me.
But what if I just sent my heads the them to have the cams put in and valves
and porting done.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Roberts" <bigredxrunner at yahoo.com>
To: "Ducati Owners Group" <ducati at ducati.net>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Ducati] getting more from a 996
BCM if they still do as Bruce did will halve the weight of your flywheel.
Key to keeping engine work reasonable is to do as much of the work yourself
as you can. If buying cams and paying someone to change, do shim adjustment
and degree it starts adding up in labor time, all things the typical home
mechanic can do. Ways to save on shims if you are smart...Not sure what size
valves you have...SPS cams are more like stock thatn some of the other
options meaning the duration and overlap are like stradas. They just have
more lift. BCM is a good place to turn to. Of course all my past dealings
was with Bruce and Kyle and the like. I know nothing about how things are
going under Leslie, though I know of him a bit...so you should still be in
good hands I think. There are lots of things you can do to that motor to get
a little more ummph, cheaper the more you do yourself. I think refereshing
might also be in order, Though going up on valve size is also a typical part
of making
head breath better along with cams. Still you can lap valves, get better
sealing, degree cams etc. New cams I would lightly sand edges of cams, check
rockers out closely when cams out of the way. Not sure if you have ever done
a valve adjustment yourself...but new cams will require reshimming but you
likely will be able to reuse alot of shims. And there are ways to lap a shim
to size if too tight and you would rather not just buy new. I make up a
matrix and shift shims around first then do some lapping if need be and then
maybe end up buying just a couple. You take it to a shop they likely will
just change em all out....as it is quicker. If you are doing yourself there
are things you can do that are smarter cause it is your time, not on the
labor bill so to speak. Degreeing cams you need the tools and knowhow. But I
have said it once or twice before. If I can do it anyone can do it, just
depends on if you want to roll up your sleeves and do yourself or...pay
someone else.
Still for track days I would not use an expensive bike...though I have had
my old bike on the track I get just as much out of track days on just about
anything else. My wifes Speed Triple did me quite nicely at VIR.
----- Original Message ----
From: cedwards105 <cedwards105 at cfl.rr.com>
To: Ducati Owners Group <ducati at ducati.net>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 11:27:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Ducati] getting more from a 996
Thanks for all the info, I have the suspension pretty much sorted out, stock
Ohlins rear with the proper spring for my weight, stock forks up front but
again springed for me.
I have a Dymag wheel up front, but the matching rear became a fiasco
(http://www.mad-ducati.com/GalleryShow.php?SeqId=1&GalleryId=64) to obtain,
so I just have the stock 5 spoke aluminum out back. I have the 4 pad
calipers with Braketech Axis rotors and a Brembo Master cylinder with steel
lines doing the business up front.
I have a Bucci slipper clutch in it and I believe it has the Salt Lake City
chip mod done for the single injector. I have the gearing at 15/39, which is
pretty close to your 14/36.
I guess the area where I feel it is lacking is that the motor feels slow to
spin up. I think I'll talk to BCM about the cams and will also have them
mill a bit off my flywheel.
I don't want to get into major dollars doing modifications on a 7 year old
bike and I also want to keep it reliable. I love riding my 996 on the track,
but once the bill hits about $5K, I start thinking maybe I should just get a
year or two old GSX750R, which I have ridden in the past and love and leave
the 996 as is.
I went down the search for HP route with my Bimota DB2 (900ss motor) and
gained about 17rwhp for about $7000 worth or parts and labor, I don't really
want to repeat that.
Thanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe M Ribaudo" <jribaudo at csc.com>
To: <ducati at ducati.net>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Ducati] getting more from a 996
>
> I'm with Rich here. I've got a 2001 996 w/ SPS cams, Termi 1/2 system
> (not
> slip-ons) and FIM chip (single injector)...no additional valve or head
> work
> necessary.
> I don't know what the RWHP is...but it made a HUGE difference on street
> and
> track vs. just having slip-ons and FIM chip. I'm using 14/36 gearing and
> rarely get out of 4th gear (good for over 130 mph).
> On race-starts...Off the line - I can out drag a Gixxer750 to our T1 in
> Loudon...if that helps set a tangible performance metric for you.
> BottomLine-Best investment I've ever made in the bike (along with Mag.
> wheels :-)
> Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays,
> Joe
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 03:31:34 -0800 (PST)
> From: Rich Roberts <bigredxrunner at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ducati] getting more from a 996
> To: Ducati Owners Group <ducati at ducati.net>
> Message-ID: <20061222113134.39453.qmail at web84204.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii
>
> Course I do not think opening airbox on 996 is the way to go, SPS cams
> will
> make a big difference. And an FIM chip 15-20 might be a bit of a stretch
> though. Cams good tune chip might get you 120 or so.
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: mike major <textike at yahoo.com>
> To: Ducati Owners Group <ducati at ducati.net>
> My 03 ST4s has the 996 engine and all I did is install Remus mufflers,
> open
> the air box with about a 2 by 4 slit near the top and have it dyno tuned
> with a power commander. The result is a lot fatter torque curve and 121.6
> rear wheel HP on the dyno. I got most of my info from the book, "Ducati
> Desmoquattro Performance Handbook" by Ian Falloon, available through
> motorbooks. Later, Moonbeam
>
> cedwards105 <cedwards105 at cfl.rr.com> wrote: I have a bone stock '00
> 996s.
> My guess is it makes around 106-109rwhp. What could I do to get it to make
> about another 15-20rwhp.
> I have ridden a 996SPS, I'd like that kind of power and torque. Can I just
> put SPS cams in it and maybe do the valves?
> Thanks.
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